tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post1332896368090778103..comments2024-03-18T08:51:07.314+00:00Comments on i b i k e l o n d o n: Busting the myth that road narrowing schemes are good for cyclistsibikelondonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-22054903256926233032022-09-04T06:56:05.962+01:002022-09-04T06:56:05.962+01:00d2o70z8r99 y2u86m5p70 p3j54u9n75 i4k87h7p65 j8... <a href="https://nethut63135.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>d2o70z8r99</strong></a> y2u86m5p70 <a href="https://tatheath61772.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>p3j54u9n75</strong></a> i4k87h7p65 <a href="https://pheso82518.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>j8d20h8o64</strong></a> g5u29z3a78thesayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13663575892087202384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-5505039601943901592013-05-16T11:52:35.517+01:002013-05-16T11:52:35.517+01:00I’m actually on this blog as a result of Googling ...I’m actually on this blog as a result of Googling to find out if these were actually meant to be 'cycle lanes'. I saw them being constructed, and honestly could not believe that they would be so short sighted as to build them in the pavement side car door opening zone. (At least cycle lanes on the traffic side mean people are expecting to check for traffic – needless to say a child in the back of a car will not be checking before he swings the door open!) <br /><br />Have you also seen on the west to east cycle lane, they haven’t even moved the Pay and Display meter from the ‘cycle path’? I’ll try and get a photo if you are interested. It leaves circa 40cm for a bike to squeeze by. It’s ridiculous.<br /><br />I live at the east end of Bethnal Green Road (near the underground station), but gave up cycling along it after seeing a few nasty scrapes / accidents with all the pinch points and parked cars. I now turn left to ride down Wilmot Street, and turn right to ride along Three Colts Lane, Cheshire Street, and Sclatler street on my way to and from work. These roads run parallel with Bethnal Green Road. The only issue with this is that it involves a slightly longer route simply to avoid one way stretches and ‘no entries’ (Sclatler street going in to the city, and Cheshire street on my way home both have very short stretches of one way, and no entry signs, meaning you have to use Bacon Street). <br /><br />I’ve always thought a far more adequate way of getting cyclists one end to the other of Bethnal Green Road would be to make these one way stretches of road 2 way for cyclists, and then diverting the cycles off Bethnal Green Road to these quieter streets, and clearly marking areas of the road for cyclists (not segregation, just markings). The cost of that would be a few signs and some street markings. The expense to a cyclist is then maybe up to 1 minute additional riding, but in a far safer environment.<br /><br />Good blog above, agree I like the sentiment of putting in cycle lanes, but this are just ridiculous – and the fact that they are not marking them does expose the liability issues you outline too. Crazy.<br />JCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-88871087885239381302013-04-19T09:48:52.339+01:002013-04-19T09:48:52.339+01:00I'm really glad you wrote this post, I complet...I'm really glad you wrote this post, I completely agree with you.<br /><br />Southwark Council have been narrowing roads with the same specious reasoning. They recently narrowed a road in Peckham that has a 30 mph speed limit, and actually took out a mandatory cycle lane! See:<br /><br />http://tom.acrewoods.net/2012/04/04/southwarks-cycling-revolution/<br /><br />Now they are proposing to remove a one way system in a residential area and narrow the roads, when there is an obvious opportunity to use the space for generous cycle contraflow lanes and wider pavements where needed. Sadly Southwark Cyclists gave the scheme their full support.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-14069809848189688022013-04-04T00:54:53.189+01:002013-04-04T00:54:53.189+01:00Hey guys, have you seen this? It seems that the co...Hey guys, have you seen this? It seems that the council did consult with the Tower Hamlet Wheelers ---<br /><br />http://www.towerhamletswheelers.org.uk/news/cycle-facility-bethnal-green-road-west<br /><br />At the end of 2012, THW was consulted by LB Tower Hamlets on a scheme for the western end of Bethnal Green (between St Matthew's Row and Shacklewell Street). It involves the road being narrowed and cycle tracks built either side of the road in between the parking bays and pavement.<br /><br />We responded objecting to the proposed plans for numerous reasons e.g. lack of reasoning for the need to take cyclists off the road for this short section, creating new dangers at the track entry and exit points, convoluted route of the cycle tracks (winding around trees...). Overall we consider it a waste of money.<br /><br />At the beginning of March, THW reps met with LBTH officers on site at Bethnal Green Road to discuss our concerns further. The construction work though had already begun and we're left still being unclear why the council wants to build this facility and narrow the road.<br /><br />The road narrowing part of the scheme is the same as was recently implemented at the western end of Roman Road. We weren't consulted on that work but again since using it are unclear of who it is meant to be benefiting.<br /><br />Looking forward we welcome that we are being invited earlier on in the process for intended works at the eastern end of Bethnal Green Road. We will continue to hope we can influence the traffic planning so that schemes properly consider pedestrians and cyclists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-48371950474563364732013-04-03T12:41:27.625+01:002013-04-03T12:41:27.625+01:00Open car doors are wider than the cycle lane! I sa...Open car doors are wider than the cycle lane! I saw it today. None of those cars are going to expect someone to be cycling happily along the pavement.... CRUNCH! Broken car, broken head. Who's to blame? Bad design! Sue the council? :OAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-37421582654945543412013-04-02T14:14:12.453+01:002013-04-02T14:14:12.453+01:00@Nick Nope, that's it. .9 metres, butted up a...@Nick Nope, that's it. .9 metres, butted up against the doors of the parked cars. In fairness, there are many on-carriageway cycle paths in London which are about ten years old now which are just as bad, but the point of course is that we shouldn't still be building this sort of thing.ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-30035171353242310812013-04-02T14:11:41.590+01:002013-04-02T14:11:41.590+01:00Thanks for the measurements. Please tell me there ...Thanks for the measurements. Please tell me there is some sort of separation between the "cycle track" and the parked cars that is not included in your dimensions.<br /><br />I agree that 2 metres for the track is a good minimum, as long as there is enough separation to remove door zone risks.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17045154531943784867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-15093888417903985512013-04-02T09:28:25.952+01:002013-04-02T09:28:25.952+01:00@Nick Hi and thanks for your comment. The experim...@Nick Hi and thanks for your comment. The experimental cycle track on Bethnal Green Road varies in width between 0.5 metres and 0.9metres. Most design standards state that cycle tracks should be a minimum of 2 metres each way (which I support) so as you can see these aren't nearly big enough. They also are very short and dump cyclists back in to the traffic from offside which could cause visability problems.<br /><br />Broadly speaking I welcome the intention of what the traffic engineers are trying to do here, my problem is with their style of delivery.ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-80562079457783344972013-04-01T20:01:18.584+01:002013-04-01T20:01:18.584+01:00I watch this discussion from the states with some ...I watch this discussion from the states with some interest, as similar discussions are happening here.<br /><br />How wide is the "experimental" cycle track Bethnal Green Road? <br /><br />Clearly, the original wide road lane is preferable to the author than a poorly implemented cycle track, but I'm curious what a "wide enough" cycle track would be?<br /><br />In the states, 2.43 m is considered the absolute minimum for a one-way cycle track adjacent to parking, and 2.74 is the preferred minimum. <br /><br />Are these dimensions too narrow still? <br /><br />Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17045154531943784867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-78623003181974334332013-03-27T10:18:46.797+00:002013-03-27T10:18:46.797+00:00You can see here, in similar though much more acci...You can see <a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=211027221320787572027.0004d88ba0290b7a6f76b&hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=m&layer=c&cbll=52.207189,0.146954&panoid=tdvnisDoouAf709bk2gCMQ&cbp=13,296.32,,0,0.41&source=embed&ll=52.207189,0.146954&spn=0.012124,0.008991&z=16&vpsrc=0" rel="nofollow">here</a>, in similar though much more accidental circumstances, how cyclists instinctively feel about road-narrowing schemes. (The cycle bridge on the left of picture is not very 'on-and-offable'.)bikemapperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902775699101288384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-60508095861989663132013-03-26T18:13:44.120+00:002013-03-26T18:13:44.120+00:00Roads should be suitable for everyone to ride on, ...Roads should be suitable for everyone to ride on, including a 70 year old granny going to the shops, and a 13 year old girl returning home from school. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-87571807415718958402013-03-26T18:12:21.699+00:002013-03-26T18:12:21.699+00:00If we're allowed to cycle on THAT pavement, th...If we're allowed to cycle on THAT pavement, then how do we know which pavements we're not allowed to cycle on?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-65739871431015500462013-03-26T18:02:28.106+00:002013-03-26T18:02:28.106+00:00An excellent way of encouraging pavement cycling.
...An excellent way of encouraging pavement cycling.<br /><br />Yet another anon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-10114753985586398402013-03-26T17:08:27.678+00:002013-03-26T17:08:27.678+00:00Absolutely... cars don't want to be forced to ...Absolutely... cars don't want to be forced to go slower by a bicycle in the way -- and they will do whatever they can to get past, or to get that bicycle out of the way. And that's dangerous. And that's been proven by the current design in the middle and at the Bethnal Green end of Bethnal Green Road.<br /><br />I understand, people get caught up in the importance of what they're doing. They're focussed, they're not thinking through all the consequences because they have enough on their plate. Driving is a complex skill, and uses a lot of the brain's processing power.<br /><br />Which is why it is important that we don't entirely put it upon drivers to look out for the safety of other road users - we have to design the road in such a way that it protects everyone and forces everyone to treat each other with space and respect and care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-65792408817705298462013-03-26T16:18:34.015+00:002013-03-26T16:18:34.015+00:00@Anonymous (Above)
As I cycle and use a bus on thi...@Anonymous (Above)<br />As I cycle and use a bus on this section of road on a regular basis I think I understand the concept of this road design perfectly.<br /><br />Of course drivers *should* go more slowly when roads are narrow, but more often than not if they are moving they are still moving more quickly than cyclists, which leads to close and dangerous passing.<br /><br />If traffic is stationary then it leads to people either cycling on the carriageway or squeezing in to very dangerous gaps, as described above. <br /><br />So who wins? Not drivers. Certainly not cyclists. <br /><br />Why, when I am on my bike, should I either be used as a rolling road block, or disadvantaged by being made to wait with all the other traffic? Clearly there's more to the issues behind the concept than you make out - it is certainly not a black and white issue which is why I wrote; "engineers, traffic planners and street-makers need to appraise their work with a more critical eye and avoid just doing what seems to be in fashion and thinking themselves radical for it."ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-64269637635891302382013-03-26T16:14:05.126+00:002013-03-26T16:14:05.126+00:00You're ignoring the reason why this "ridi...You're ignoring the reason why this "ridiculous" trend is being implemented...Yes, it is indeed true that there should be more space for cyclists on these roads, preferably with some sort of a physical barrier separating the space where cars drive and where cyclists do, but you are clearly not understanding how much slower the drivers must go when the roads are more narrow...It's not a difficult concept to grasp.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-24683289950384095632013-03-26T15:09:41.230+00:002013-03-26T15:09:41.230+00:00This is happening at a rapid rate, and I assume is...This is happening at a rapid rate, and I assume is part of TfL's latest insanity bout. Major junctions at the Strand/ Waterloo Bridge junction and the Bullring roundabout, for example, have seen massive road-narrowing (and absurdly wide pavements). It's creating deadly crush-zones for cyclists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-76626142572957158472013-03-26T00:10:08.756+00:002013-03-26T00:10:08.756+00:00I cycle to work along East Lane in Brent, a major ...I cycle to work along East Lane in Brent, a major feeder road going towards Wembley Stadium, and this exemplifies most of the points about road narrowing. <br />Most days I resort to riding the median strip (marked with diagonal lines) as there is no room to filter past stationery traffic on the inside. <br />There is ample room for cycle lanes much of the way along the wide pavement, where there are long stretches of grass verge. But I don't have any hope that will be implemented, as the council would rather spend their paltry cycling allowance on cycle training schemes.<br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-5359086173151121222013-03-25T17:56:39.179+00:002013-03-25T17:56:39.179+00:00the other problem here is excessive parking provis...the other problem here is excessive parking provision - there just isn't space on these main roads for motor vehicles, bikes, pedestrians, and a bunch of stopped cars taking up space on the street. bike parking, sure. loading bays where necessary, but that's it. this is the inner city. there's great public transport. parking bays are not necessary. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-51848503975834880702013-03-25T17:36:24.410+00:002013-03-25T17:36:24.410+00:00Why is there parking along a fast busy A-road such...Why is there parking along a fast busy A-road such as this one? This road does not need parking along it.<br /><br />The problem is that this road is NOT WIDE enough as it is for all the traffic that wants to travel along it. <br /><br />The simple solution is to remove all the parking and replace it with a cycle lane.<br /><br />At the moment people on bikes have to take the lane as otherwise they're cycling right in the door kill zone. But when we take the lane cars can't get past as the road is too narrow, so they get annoyed and aggressive and react dangerously.<br /><br />Along Bethnal Green Road I have had taxi drivers try to kill me by swerving into me, honk, tailgate, zoom past with millimeters to spare, shout, swear, threaten and generally intimidate me because I am 'in the way' and preventing them from accelerating to the next set of red lights.<br /><br />The pedestrian islands are at junctions just after red lights, so cars will crowd into the Advanced Cycle Box next to you so they can zoom ahead and swerve into your path to get past the ped island before you.<br /><br />The whole road is a disgrace and encourages dangerous and antisocial behaviour from both drivers and cyclists.<br /><br />It's a very important issue, as for many people it is the only viable route into town and back home - and the terrible design of of the road is putting our lives and those of our loved ones at real risk.<br /><br />But what can we do about it? Perhaps we need some reclaim the streets style protests to close off the road a day a month until Tower Hamlets Council take us seriously?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-30356396560157421222013-03-25T17:02:04.068+00:002013-03-25T17:02:04.068+00:00Regarding anonimous's comment "I see the ...Regarding anonimous's comment "I see the good points and the bad ones of road narrowing. Can we hope that drivers would just stop using these roads b/c they are too narrow? They already have to slow down considerably, so maybe that might put them off.."<br /><br />This is what happens in this area already thanks to the convenient rat runs provided by the borough. Bethnal Green rd can sometimes be really quiet when the small streets alongside it are mini cab racing tracks.<br />The tracks are being built because money needed to be spent and this was on the shelf ready to go. One email to the local LCC group would have provided a list of areas where to spend the money much better, for example to enable cyclists to use the surrounding streets and choose much better router than Bethnal Green road. I use this bit every day and still fail to see which problem this cycle track is actually trying to address.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05696131957624466856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-63773695938650968382013-03-25T16:24:50.732+00:002013-03-25T16:24:50.732+00:00The same road narrowings with pedestrian refuges a...The same road narrowings with pedestrian refuges are popping up all over Rushmoor in NE Hants. They are at worst when they come in multiples along a road. <br /><br />The advice given is it take the road. I was beeped at for doing this today. Sad to say I braked and deferred just before the bottleneck.Sarah woodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-4374850277178761262013-03-25T13:35:00.999+00:002013-03-25T13:35:00.999+00:00Concerned about Southwark council's plans for ...Concerned about Southwark council's plans for Camberwell too. True, TfL will make sure they get the lanes they want for the upcoming Cycle Superhighway, but if the rest of the scheme is to be anything like Walworth Road is now, it'll be horrid.Mattinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-80341316383240716872013-03-25T13:28:10.131+00:002013-03-25T13:28:10.131+00:00thanks for increasing awareness. I'm very unh...thanks for increasing awareness. I'm very unhappy at being a rolling speed bump - it's not comfortable. <br />Here's another example: <br />Islington council have just narrowed part of Hornsey Road near Arsenal Stadium by building out street corners and creating additional parking space. What was the 'safe' alternative to Holloway road suddenly seems far more precarious. The additional parking seems to have created demand (there seem to be far more parked cars than ever before) while the narrowed road means cars are more likely to back up in queues to the lights. Queues we can't sail past because of the parked cars and pinch point street corners.<br /><br />I don't know a huge amount about the road planning process. Is it normal to consult with road users or is it more likely this was another well-meant attempt to calm the roads?ERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00583028254815776978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-74956335058211064862013-03-25T13:24:23.252+00:002013-03-25T13:24:23.252+00:00Sometimes I wonder if cycling in London is even mo...Sometimes I wonder if cycling in London is even moving forwards at all - after all this time it's transparent that most of the people designing the loads don't get it. All we have are nice words from the mayor, I believe we also had nice words from the previous one.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05033674814953833036noreply@blogger.com