tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post6670856196448958639..comments2024-03-28T11:13:48.581+00:00Comments on i b i k e l o n d o n: The myth of the red light jumping cyclistibikelondonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-53676613708722868642022-08-26T04:54:10.162+01:002022-08-26T04:54:10.162+01:00l4f60m0v99 d8l60y0c18 y9o39s4b06 d9s20j3q99 e8... <a href="https://pheteigh48955.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>l4f60m0v99</strong></a> d8l60y0c18 <a href="https://sedethea84492.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>y9o39s4b06</strong></a> d9s20j3q99 <a href="https://stouto73821.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>e8k91z7n23</strong></a> m3j32f3t32mcsoanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08011225512497140109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-12648484467078991252022-05-24T01:52:21.479+01:002022-05-24T01:52:21.479+01:00over here replica designer backpacks read replic... over here <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/35cm-togo-c-157_281_282_284/hermes-birkin-35cm-togo-leather-handbags-dark-grey-p-2508.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>replica designer backpacks</strong></a> read <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/20cm-c-157_190_228_229/designer-high-quality-cf-20-cm-25-cm-replica-bags-p-4930.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>replica bags</strong></a> look at this web-site <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/men-bags-c-157_158_202/replicas-lv-briefcase-explorer-monogram-eclipse-canvas-m40566-p-1617.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>replica bags</strong></a>shislesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00884334983430226722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-42016577073673078052012-02-02T22:48:13.963+00:002012-02-02T22:48:13.963+00:00I sometimes jump the odd light up here on Tyneside...I sometimes jump the odd light up here on Tyneside. There are a lot of lights, many of which should be zebra crossings (for which the rules for bikes are different). But road culture is not as aggresive up here, you will not generally see anyone on a bike running a crossing with people on it. London is one of the most aggressive places in europe which is reflected in the behaviour of both bicyclists and drivers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-15193349591587184082011-04-12T21:47:18.649+01:002011-04-12T21:47:18.649+01:00ktcita, encourage them and tell them the NHS needs...ktcita, encourage them and tell them the NHS needs their organs.alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-59608004346613373552010-10-08T14:20:59.765+01:002010-10-08T14:20:59.765+01:00All the "proper policing" in the world w...All the "proper policing" in the world won't solve the problem. What's needed is an epidemic of social responsibility and consideration for others. Both of which are sadly lacking in the nanny state that is modern Britain. Pedestrians, motorcylists, car drivers, truck and bus drivers, etc as well as cyclists ARE responsible for their how their actions affect others. It's up to all of us to point that out to those who behave otherwise (that's part of our responsbility).<br /><br />NeilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-15017710300673231912010-05-07T18:20:51.473+01:002010-05-07T18:20:51.473+01:00@kcita I would not bother for a number of reasons ...@kcita I would not bother for a number of reasons (1) There are so many RLJ that you would be shouting all day at people and (2) There is lots of pent up aggression, you are likely to get into verbal slanging matches that are not going to help for your day in day out happiness. Personally, RLJ annoys me, but rarely comment - life's too short.Freddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998498387402519154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-15562024431422171202010-05-07T17:58:53.874+01:002010-05-07T17:58:53.874+01:00I'm a non RLJ and would love some advice on wh...I'm a non RLJ and would love some advice on what to say to educate those who do RLJ. As you say, it's important to let them know, but how to say it without getting your head bitten off?<br /><br />And yes @Bransby, it's very satisfying to catch up with them later, obviously giving you a great opportunity to educate them about the error of their ways.Kimberley Croftshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17834027932805041972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-39162132619792768922010-04-29T03:15:48.275+01:002010-04-29T03:15:48.275+01:00Hey, Mark! I don't know if you ever follow Bik...Hey, Mark! I don't know if you ever follow BikePortland, but Jonathan Maus, the editor, just posted <a href="http://bikeportland.org/2010/04/28/middle-fingers-dont-lead-to-productive-dialogue-and-other-lessons-from-a-road-rage-interaction/" rel="nofollow">an article</a> that I thought you might be interested in--huge amount of comment, and the topic (whether or not to flip the bird :D ) engendered a lot of discussion that I thought you might enjoy.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13943854290539335426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-77496695408998735202010-04-27T20:34:34.907+01:002010-04-27T20:34:34.907+01:00Hate this myth too. Of course, there are certain r...Hate this myth too. Of course, there are certain red lights which some people tend to skip because a) there is not much traffic and b) they have to wait forever for a green light. However, this is still not the majority. I once hit a pedestrians who jumped a red light because the cars weren't moving (and some people just never watch the bike lane). Wasn't a very nice experience, but I'm still not for not jumping red lights as a pedestrians. In fact, I think less traffic lights should be installed because they are simply not necessary everything. Still, I do follow the traffic rules, and don't run red lights. It's mostly just a matter of safety and being responsible for the public opinion about cyclists.annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14989947994626570874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-16675473304393651502010-04-27T13:52:36.371+01:002010-04-27T13:52:36.371+01:00Lots of great comments here, thanks all for taking...Lots of great comments here, thanks all for taking the time to join in the debate.<br /><br />Adam, your experience sounds horrible and you are right if you had been a frail or elderly person or a child the situation could have been a lot worse.<br /><br />As I say in the blog post if you ARE going to jump red lights (and again the only reason I think this is a good idea is if it puts you out of harm's way) PLEASE make sure you do it with absolute and utmost regard for pedestrians and think also about what it does for the image of cyclists as a whole.<br /><br />I agree that MOST red light jumping I see is not because of a safety issue but out of sheer lazyness. Really, that's not a good call at all.ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-49512182932537976312010-04-27T12:44:54.639+01:002010-04-27T12:44:54.639+01:00I've had the experience of being hit by a red ...I've had the experience of being hit by a red light jumper going the wrong way up a one way bus station entry at Vauxhall when the crossing was on green. Really insulting was I was carrying my Brompton at the time too! It could so easily have been much nastier if say I'd been an OAP. <br /><br />I think too much red light jumping is because people know they can get away with it coupled with some self deluding excuse that it's for my own safety.<br /><br />Please don't jump lights. It does hurt when you are hit.<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />AdamAdamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-84092050447057019642010-04-26T16:58:56.857+01:002010-04-26T16:58:56.857+01:00It completely depends on the type of crossing. The...It completely depends on the type of crossing. There are big crossings where I've never seen a cyclist jump a red light and I would never do it myself. I think the ones you picked largely fall into that category.<br /><br />There is a big big difference between crossing the Euston Road and a small traffic light in a residential area... I will jump the latter, after looking around and while driving at a slow speed only, and so do many many other cyclists.sweekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17688104749196325079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-78852904098325190062010-04-26T15:55:57.901+01:002010-04-26T15:55:57.901+01:00Interesting debate.
What I see from my saddle, wh...Interesting debate.<br /><br />What I see from my saddle, whilst waiting at a red light, is a lot of lemmings, who will follow the 1st cyclist across the jn. If you do it, you may be putting others in danger.<br /><br />As for ASLs, I see them as sirens tempting the inexperienced cyclist to advance past the back wheels of a truck, encouraging more accidents. Not a fan.<br /><br />When I find myself at the front of the queue, I wait forward of the ASL & forward of the pedestrian crossing, to avoid the PRLJs.<br /><br />I think RLJ'ing is comparable to the motorist who claims it is safer for them to break the speed limit; Indefensible.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08933440024338646469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-50930284679798586982010-04-26T12:37:31.614+01:002010-04-26T12:37:31.614+01:00I've been cycling to work in West London for a...I've been cycling to work in West London for about 7 years now, and red light jumpers still piss me off. I always stop because it's really not that much hassle and I've certainly never found myself in a situation where jumping a red light is safer than not jumping it. It's is very true that red light jumpers give every other cyclist an image problem. Pedestrians and drivers aren't going to look twice at someone waiting at a red light, but they'll be very aware of someone jumping it.<br /><br />On a final note, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the immense satisfaction derived from chasing down and over-taking someone who's just jumped the red you were waiting at. Often the highlight of my day ;-)Bransbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00808890758590538035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-57268676892569759922010-04-26T12:05:40.728+01:002010-04-26T12:05:40.728+01:00Bart, I totally agree with you on that specific ex...Bart, I totally agree with you on that specific example: as most of my article points out the cyclists should hold pedestrians in the HIGHEST regard (no matter how unpredictable or lemming like their behaviour sometimes)<br /><br />But the likes of the Daily Mail or the Cops going on about cyclists RLJing isn't going to change these rider's actions, it will just increase their perception of an 'us and them' divide. If cyclists are RLJing just because they have a sense of entitlement or think it makes them faster then it is up to other cyclists to call them out on this behaviour; that's the only way things are going to change.ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-57869465340298991402010-04-26T12:01:15.455+01:002010-04-26T12:01:15.455+01:00Thanks everyone for your comments, lots to chew ov...Thanks everyone for your comments, lots to chew over here.<br /><br />Adam, I will take you up specifically on a number of your points: I don't encourage cyclists to act legally if I think it will put them in mortal danger (which is the only time in the post I said that I thought RLJing was a good idea) You offered another way of getting out of harms reach and both ways are equally effective, regardless of the legal ramifications. It is not my place to enforce the law; that onerous task falls to the Police and I hope that they do it with equal regard to ALL forms of traffic on the road (ie don't just single out cyclists), especially as cyclists are clearly not the only ones jumping the lights, as demonstrated by the data.<br /><br />I agree that many of the RLJers I see are not doing it out of necessity for safety but rather out of sheer laziness. These are the cyclists who need to think long and hard about how their actions alter the perception of ALL cyclists by other road users. It's up to us all to check the behaviour of these cyclists and call them out when they are acting like tits. Maybe if everyone stopped riding like they were in a race and more like they were just going to work things might improve?ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-43177419996018774582010-04-26T11:59:32.299+01:002010-04-26T11:59:32.299+01:00I want to reiterate. Red Light Jumping IS a proble...I want to reiterate. Red Light Jumping IS a problem. <br />Before cycling to work, I often walk my kids to school and almost every day cyclist will jump the red lights while small kids are trying to cross the road. <br /><br />Almost every day, in both directions. <br />And yes they will swear when you do not get out of the way using languages that I'd rather my kids do not hear.<br /><br />We DO have a problem with boorish cyclists, first step is to recognise it.Freddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998498387402519154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-21367567862255669022010-04-26T11:25:40.706+01:002010-04-26T11:25:40.706+01:00The light jumping has gotten a lot worse over the ...The light jumping has gotten a lot worse over the last few weeks as the sunshine has brought out all the fair weather cyclists. They jump the light, pissing-off royally any non-cyclists that see them and then pottle down the road at a speed my maiden aunt would call slow.<br /><br />The animosity this generates between cyclists and other road users is reason alone to stop doing it. Collective use of shared spaces and all that...Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-52559310190031399372010-04-26T11:19:59.007+01:002010-04-26T11:19:59.007+01:00Here you have an opportunity to suggest that every...Here you have an opportunity to suggest that everyone should obey the Highway Code and you don't take it. Why not? It seems you are actually encouraging cyclists to <b>act illegally</b>. I agree that it would be great if there were more everyday, ordinary cyclists on the road but telling those cyclists that it's OK to jump red lights just <b>isn't right</b>. <br /><br />Taking your example of the red light that you admit jumping on your commute. Here's a legal way to deal with it: <i>get off your bicycle and walk through the junction during the pedestrian crossing phase of the light sequence</i>. It's really not that hard and will legally get you away from the perceived danger. (I do this quite often myself.) Secondly, if there's an HGV behind you and you know that the road narrows ahead then position yourself on the road in such way that the HGV has to stay behind you until he can safely pass. In any case, as you have pointed out elsewhere, you aren’t really at risk if you’re in front of an HGV. (Your other articles clearly show that the risks are highest when next to a turning HGV.)<br /><br />Besides your justification for jumping this red light I would say that most of the red light jumpers that I see aren’t doing it to get out of danger. They appear to be doing it because they can’t be bothered to stop and because there are no consequences of them acting illegally. Perhaps they think that not stopping at the red lights makes their trip shorter. I would argue that us cyclists save so much time by cycling that we can easily afford to spend a small portion of that time waiting for green lights. In any case, the opportunity to stop and rest your legs for a minute is a good thing and it may help you cycle faster when the lights change. <br /><br />Finally, it’s much easier to complain about the actions of car drivers if you have the moral high ground. Jumping red lights whips the carpet out from under your feet.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920271109812828912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-66764233707112531982010-04-26T11:09:01.229+01:002010-04-26T11:09:01.229+01:00On my commute to and from work (from west into cen...On my commute to and from work (from west into central London) I may occasionally see a car go through a red light. Every day I can guarantee that I will see several cyclists jumping red lights, cycling on pavements and other traffic infringements.<br /><br />Every day I am disappointed by the behaviour of my fellow cyclists.<br /><br />The idea that cyclists need to jump lights for their own safety is frankly a joke. If there's a big truck at the front of the queue - or for some other it looks unsafe to wait at the lights in front of traffic - use your common sense and wait at the back of the queue!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17705819927178030356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-89154168850942937662010-04-26T11:06:32.231+01:002010-04-26T11:06:32.231+01:00Hello Anonymous motorcyclist and thanks for taking...Hello Anonymous motorcyclist and thanks for taking the time to stop by.<br /><br />I totally agree that us 2 wheelers should look out for one another, whether motorised or not. <br /><br />Regarding the statistics, the opposite is in fact true; there are half a million cycle journeys in London every day according to TfL, so the potential for many accidents are there, but they're not materialising. The point being, I guess, that if you hit someone in a motorised vehicle you are more likely to hurt the victim. Regardless, the point is that neither cyclists nor drivers should be hitting pedestrians; our roads and junctions should be policed properly to ensure the safety of all (see my point above about the cause of cyclist's injuries being other road users red light jumping)<br /><br />Lastly, and just quickly, about your point as to whether cyclists should pay for cycling provisions, we in fact already do. All roads in the UK are paid for out of general taxation (which everyone pays) 'Road tax', duty on fuel, MOTs and rego etc are all taxes on owning and operating motorised vehicles, not the right to use the roads which are a public resource. If 0 emmission cars don't have to pay 'road tax' I don't see why cyclists should either. Besides which, by designing infrastructure that supposts cyclists you are helping the motorist be getting more cars off the road :o)ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-15320442083749646182010-04-26T10:58:42.667+01:002010-04-26T10:58:42.667+01:00Hi Bart, thanks for stopping by. This is going to...Hi Bart, thanks for stopping by. This is going to sound CRAZY but I seem to notice a lot more RLJing in West London too... odd. I am certain you did see 10 RLJers but how many cyclists stopped at red with you?ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-7448464499648783132010-04-26T10:50:18.202+01:002010-04-26T10:50:18.202+01:00The thing that annoys me the most is when people t...The thing that annoys me the most is when people try to push past or get annoyed that they cant make it through when I have stopped at a red light. I have had people all but push me off my bike as they try and squeeze past.<br /><br />I really agree about your comments on looking out for pedestrians, I see to many cyclist blaze through pedestrian crossings and then get angry when they shout back.<br /><br />My motto is respect goes both ways, a little bit of courtesy on the roads can go a long way.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15669471433486975683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-10667021244978444142010-04-26T10:49:26.217+01:002010-04-26T10:49:26.217+01:00+1 - nay, plus several million - on the "abso...+1 - nay, plus several million - on the "absolute regard for pedestrians" bit: I've long maintained that the foot traveller should be Top Dog on our roads. But I suggest that the merest soupcon of regard for motorists is not a sign of weakness either: RLJ which causes other people to have to take avoiding action is inconsiderate no matter how much metal cage they're carting around with them, and we can afford to be magnaminousdan_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04811252855899463759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-18276941451206901812010-04-26T10:16:27.722+01:002010-04-26T10:16:27.722+01:00Hiya,
First thing is I'm a motorcyclist, driv...Hiya,<br /><br />First thing is I'm a motorcyclist, driver and cyclist, just want to get that out of the way.<br /><br />I think your opinion is a bit skewed on the facts, my experience of 'jumpers' compared to yours is very different but I do take your point and your last sentence covers it for me, if you do it, be careful.<br /><br />About cars hitting peds, I mean that is going to be the case isn't it? How many more cars are there on the road than cycles? Statistically they must hit more peds just due to numbers more than anything. I don't think you can read much in to that personally.<br /><br />I'd like to see all your suggestions, advance lights, ASL's better cycle lanes but it's not going to happen without the funding. Would cyclists be prepared to pay for such provisions?<br /><br />Last word from me, I like cycling and generally I like cyclists too, on the road I look out for cyclists, we're all two wheelers after all :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com