tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post6923602199514368498..comments2024-03-28T11:13:48.581+00:00Comments on i b i k e l o n d o n: Could London's future poor be banking on bikes, and is the city ready for them?ibikelondonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-13202102993296301862022-10-16T00:58:28.385+01:002022-10-16T00:58:28.385+01:00replica louis vuitton bags s10 v9v21v7v04 aaa rep...<a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/tote-c-157_168_185/buy-luxury-gucci-671623-tote-replica-bag-with-interlocking-g-p-5471.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>replica louis vuitton bags s10</strong></a> v9v21v7v04 <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/men-bags-c-157_158_202/fashion-louis-vuitton-replica-bag-m64340-men-factory-direct-sales-p-5638.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>aaa replica bags t31</strong></a> l5q10u5m74 <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/fendi-c-209_218/top-replica-fendi-shoes-website-to-buy-high-quality-11-match-p-5511.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>best replica bags online x07</strong></a> o3l17b5s77tesitasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06969993641830998680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-7123847295131320892013-04-15T01:48:13.965+01:002013-04-15T01:48:13.965+01:00It may be the case that the future of London cycli...It may be the case that the future of London cycling is that it will attract those who cannot afford a car and that is the great irony of London cycling.<br /><br />I cycled today through Kilburn to Central London and passed many Porches stuck in traffic. <br /><br />I kept a constant 15 miles an hour whilst they spent much of the time at 0 mph. And these are people who bought their car because they were attracted to the idea of speed.<br /><br />So who's really richer and who truly poorer? Goodwheelhttp://goodwheelrentabike.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-85237675463077094722013-04-04T09:18:31.135+01:002013-04-04T09:18:31.135+01:00Thanks for the clarification @Edward Catmur - it s...Thanks for the clarification @Edward Catmur - it seems a misattribution will go half way round the world before the truth has caught the bus...<br /><br />@Fred Smith Thanks for the insight in to Islington. It could be worse, you could be in Westminster (eek!)<br /><br />@David Perhaps you're right that there's a lack of clarity in the argument here; more than anything else I just wanted to stimulate debate and awareness on this subject because I am not sure it is something that is being considered at all. Of course we both know that the solution to having more people on bikes all over London is making the space between buildings fundamentally more attractive for cycling - as I hint in the last paragraph of my post there is a lot to be done!ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-60735209864604446962013-04-04T02:58:52.247+01:002013-04-04T02:58:52.247+01:00I thought the "doughnut" being referred ...I thought the "doughnut" being referred to was the hole in the middle of London in these maps, corresponding to Westminster, RBK&C and the City. As I understand it these maps are residence-based. Therefore people living in Westminster, RBK&C and the City don't cycle to work as much as people in the inner suburbs. Is this because few of the VERY rich cycle, because they get taxis, or don't need to go anywhere, or because they live close enough to walk, or is it because of the lack of decent cycle routes in these places?<br /><br />But I think elsewhere in this argument things are being got upside down. The people in outer London who don't cycle may be less well off, but it's not because of the social perceptions of their class that they don't cycle, fundamentally, it's because the conditions for cycling are appalling where they live. If I lived in Primrose hill, I would probably cycle every day. In Edgware it's little fun, and not worth the candle. I think there's self-reinforcement going on. Because in bad cycling environments cycling is an alienating experience, people lower down the socio-economic and educational spectrums will see it as an option that society frowns upon, and they will therefore downgrade their beliefs about it. I therefore don't think much will change merely as a result of people getting poorer. They will simply get more into fuel poverty but keep driving where they can. Only government policy can turn this around by actually making cycling attractive in the lower cycling locations where it is tremendously unattractive at the moment.David Ardittihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06255565837583244148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-86671581928384220942013-04-03T22:43:42.050+01:002013-04-03T22:43:42.050+01:00Shame on Islington for having ownership of two cyc...Shame on Islington for having ownership of two cycling collision hot spots. It's a borough rich in nice words about cycling, but not so much in the way of action. We're sandwiched between Camden & Hackney so it's really hard to think what the excuse is!Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05033674814953833036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-88757246329247353622013-04-03T22:31:48.117+01:002013-04-03T22:31:48.117+01:00The Thatcher quote is a famous misattribution; see...The Thatcher quote is a famous misattribution; see http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher#Misattributed<br />Notwithstanding the efforts of parliamentary enemies and opportunists to attach the sentiment to her, it hardly fits with the kind of low-church Tory she was. Edward Catmurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416505634212251580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-39370459282764491342013-04-03T18:35:32.898+01:002013-04-03T18:35:32.898+01:00@Anonymous I'm not sure if the current (coalit...@Anonymous I'm not sure if the current (coalition) Government is quite *that* Machiavellian but your assessment of the situation did make me smile.<br /><br />Reminds me of Jonathon Swifts <a href="http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html/" rel="nofollow">"modest proposal"</a> for dealing with the poor from the 1700s!ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-60755166212910140762013-04-03T18:22:06.587+01:002013-04-03T18:22:06.587+01:00It’s all part of this Tory Government’s cunning pl...It’s all part of this Tory Government’s cunning plan – reduce benefits & wages so poor people can’t afford to eat - solves obesity crisis. Keep costs of public transport rising so poor people have to walk or take to bikes – also helps with obesity! While subsidising stupid new unnecessary road-building around the country, reduce grants to local councils so their budgets are squeezed and they can’t afford to invest in safety for cyclists or pedestrians – helps kill off the poor who can’t afford a metal box to protect themselves!<br /><br />Simple really!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-78336182386293618702013-04-03T11:02:00.065+01:002013-04-03T11:02:00.065+01:00@GIGO Thanks for taking the time to comment and sh...@GIGO Thanks for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts.<br /><br />I agree that the images cooked up by SDG are not especially accurate - the datasets used (01 and 11 census) to cook them up are problematic and of course there's only so much guess work that can be done when the ground is shifting so substantially in terms of population movement and the shifting of 'classes' (for want of a better term). They are useful however in acting as a springboard towards discussion about the wider issues and ideals London is facing, which is what I've hopefully done in the post above. Essentially, we need to get people thinking about this issue more because it is already on its way.<br /><br />The donut effect you're referring to is well-documented elsewhere - essentially there is a cordon seperating and restricting movement between inner London and outer London. The donut roughly follows the path of the north and south circular roads; roads which have given rise to a girdle of blight and poor housing and industrial building stock that encircles the city. These kind of barriers can be both mentally as well as physically difficult to cross (and not just on a bike, as explained by Lynsey Hanley in her book "Estates: an intimate history".<br /><br />As to who lives in Richmond Park or on the Thames Path, well, people *do* live in these areas and they're usually extremely well off, which in turn perversely means they are more likely to use a bicycle than their counterparts at the other end of the economic spectrum. The "poor man's wheels" have become a "rich man's toy" it would seem.ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-4305188310318812392013-04-03T10:48:38.001+01:002013-04-03T10:48:38.001+01:00Thanks for your comment Paul. I think you might b...Thanks for your comment Paul. I think you might be right about Thatcher, though its frightening where a determined self belief can take you!<br /><br />My heart is duly warmed by the story of your colleague on a bus - there is hope for humanity after all, it would seem. Good on him.<br /><br />I think that you are right that there is a message which is failing to get through to less well-off communities about the benefits of cycling. I've seen Dr Horton's Walking and Cycling report and the comments made by those interviewed from poorer backgrounds and it makes both alarming and depressing reading. In an anti-failure society, it seems as though the bicycle in certain circles is the epitome of failure as oppose to the aspirational product we know it to be in the City. It's the famous "I look down to him/ I know my place" sketch writ large through transport choice. As to how we improve this situation and get the message out there, I'm not sure, but it is certainly a debate that needs to be had.ibikelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06978714126105951294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-11394479669049126932013-04-03T10:39:03.966+01:002013-04-03T10:39:03.966+01:00I wouldn't put ANY faith in an extrapolation o...I wouldn't put ANY faith in an extrapolation of that magnitude - too much could change in 10 years, and indeed may change fairly shortly, as you explain in the article. Indeed, based on your explanation, the 2021 map appears to be simply a contrast-enhanced version of the 2011 one - pretty unsophistcated stuff and not worth discussing in terms of trends (IMO). What is interesting, though is that it looks like there's a doughnut in the middle of London from the first map. Is that because people work rather than live in the middle & cycle in, or is it hostile cycling conditions? If the former there's a problem because I thought census data were tied to addresses. Some of the darker areas in SW London, best shown on the contrast-enhanced 2021 map, are the Thames path, and the southern and eastern paths through Richmond Park. Who lives there? In that area at least it looks more like a throughput map rather than tied to addresses, in which case, how does it relate to the census data? On the other hand, for the areas I am familiar with, it does seem a fair representation of how hostile to cycling the roads are (the lighter tint the more hostile). <br /><br />Any coherent policy of encouraging cycling would of course focus action on the pink and grey areas, thus completely negating the 2021 extrapolation.<br /><br />GIGOAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7129037502516609710.post-16588353005031849152013-04-03T10:15:42.801+01:002013-04-03T10:15:42.801+01:00Well, Maggie never was particularly bright, just v...Well, Maggie never was particularly bright, just very high on self-belief.<br /><br />The wealthiest man I personally know travels on the bus from his mansion overlooking the Regent's Canal to his office in Mayfair. His net worth certainly has 8 zeroes, possibly nine, on the end. He got there through his own efforts and abilities, including a double first from Cambridge and an MBA from one of the US' most prestigious business schools. Calling him a failure?<br /><br />It is a very apparent fact that cyclist in central London are, for the most part, well heeled. I have obseved more than once that bankers, brolers, city accountants and lawyers are among the most enthusiastic cycle commuters. A bicycle is "aspirational".<br /><br />I only wish that less well-off people could see through the crap and take note of that, just as "mondeo man" once saw the car in similar terms. Dave Horton however tells us a lot about the poors' attitude to cycling which doesn't offer that much hope, founded as it is on similar notions of "failure" or worse - the escape mode of choice for crack dealers.<br /><br />And I hope they don't all go out and buy the cheapest supermarket bike, because they will be wasting their money and will soon be discouraged if they do. If anyone attempted to make and sell a car that cheap, it would fail its MOT test from brand new.Paul Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929808238663838155noreply@blogger.com